To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

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THM7
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by THM7 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:49 am

Westener 3000 makes a airsoft/airgun timer that might work...I agree a few tenths can make a difference. For our local matches I do not worry about a couple tenth's here and there...I seem to get a little better reliability with my 124 grn reloads (not subsonic) so that should help with the timer issue...with my pocket pro set to max sen it picks up the shots 50% of the time when attached to my belt. So if the R/O has it near the gun I might be OK. I am going to shoot my Max-11DF Suppressed for the next 3 or 4 local Rio matches and see if it is a real big advantage. I know I have done pretty well in the past with it....but I never really stuck with it for a number of reasons. Need to give StealthBlagga a run for his money....off to weld up a 85 rnd mag :D

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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by THM7 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:44 am

Well, after some more experience I decided that the suppressor is just not worth it. Might be OK at Knob Creek where the R/O's know how to run a timer on a suppressed gun.

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L34A1
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by L34A1 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:33 am

This KCR Spring Match 2011, I decided to split the MP5 vs the Beretta Pm12s. One suppressed and one not. I will suppress both next season as I have always done. I have grown attached to "hearing" the hits on steel and it does me well. I could not hear on the MP5 and did not like it. Cadence and timing means a lot. Accuracy is everything.
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medphys
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by medphys » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:53 pm

L34A1 wrote:This KCR Spring Match 2011, I decided to split the MP5 vs the Beretta Pm12s. One suppressed and one not. I will suppress both next season as I have always done. I have grown attached to "hearing" the hits on steel and it does me well. I could not hear on the MP5 and did not like it. Cadence and timing means a lot. Accuracy is everything.
Thanks for the input. I'm curious if you shoot subsonic rounds only or if you ever run factory 115's in a match suppressed.

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medphys
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by medphys » Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:21 pm

medphys wrote:
L34A1 wrote:This KCR Spring Match 2011, I decided to split the MP5 vs the Beretta Pm12s. One suppressed and one not. I will suppress both next season as I have always done. I have grown attached to "hearing" the hits on steel and it does me well. I could not hear on the MP5 and did not like it. Cadence and timing means a lot. Accuracy is everything.
Thanks for the input. I'm curious if you shoot subsonic rounds only or if you ever run factory 115's in a match suppressed.

Still wondering if anybody shoots suppressed with 115's (even though it may not be particularly quiet). Or stated another way, when shooting 115's, do you typically remove your suppressor?

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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by THM7 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:55 am

147 grn bullets seem to a better job on steel targets (poppers, etc...) for the most part. And from what I understand the poppers at Knob Creek are set on the heavy side....so I would go suppressed at that match with 147's. 115/124 grn supersonic are OK with a "Can" but you do not hear the steel hits nearly as well and the supersonic crack is more distracting without hearing protection.

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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by medphys » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:13 am

THM7 wrote:147 grn bullets seem to a better job on steel targets (poppers, etc...) for the most part. And from what I understand the poppers at Knob Creek are set on the heavy side....so I would go suppressed at that match with 147's. 115/124 grn supersonic are OK with a "Can" but you do not hear the steel hits nearly as well and the supersonic crack is more distracting without hearing protection.
Yes, but does one typically remove his/her suppressor when shooting the faster 115gr or just leave it on and use it as more of a muzzle brake? That is more or less what I'm getting at.

For instance, Amphibian (I think) runs a suppressed mini-Uzi. If he ran out of 147's and had to go to WalMart to pick up some WWB for the local match, would he still keep the suppressor on it? In his configuration, it looks like the suppressor is integral to the set-up and removing it would throw off the balance of the gun.

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todd
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by todd » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:56 am

medphys wrote:
THM7 wrote:147 grn bullets seem to a better job on steel targets (poppers, etc...) for the most part. And from what I understand the poppers at Knob Creek are set on the heavy side....so I would go suppressed at that match with 147's. 115/124 grn supersonic are OK with a "Can" but you do not hear the steel hits nearly as well and the supersonic crack is more distracting without hearing protection.
Yes, but does one typically remove his/her suppressor when shooting the faster 115gr or just leave it on and use it as more of a muzzle brake? That is more or less what I'm getting at.

For instance, Amphibian (I think) runs a suppressed mini-Uzi. If he ran out of 147's and had to go to WalMart to pick up some WWB for the local match, would he still keep the suppressor on it? In his configuration, it looks like the suppressor is integral to the set-up and removing it would throw off the balance of the gun.
Bad example for 2 reasons...
#1 Amphibian never runs out of ammo... ever
#2 WWB is bad in suppressors it blasts the baffles and actually voids Gemtech warranty.

To answer your question though the answer is yes... there's no harm in running 115 or 124 through a can if you run out of 147.

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Garrett
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by Garrett » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:06 am

You get back to weighing pros vs. cons of using a can.

Pros include better control from added weight and the tendency of the can to act like a big muzzle brake. Also reduced noise and blast. With the MAC type guns it also gives you something to hang on to.

Cons are added length & weight, and increased ROF. Potential for POI shift, or the chance of the can loosening, where baffle strikes can really throw off your shots. Also the potential for burning the piss out of your hand.

I've run suppressed/supersonic before to utilize the advantages of the suppressor in past matches. I would not switch halfway through a match, even if changing ammo. Not unless I had practiced both ways with both types of ammo beforehand. Stay with what you are used to.

Now that I live in a "no silencer" state, I could still shoot suppressed at the Creek, picking up my cans from storage on the way there. But since I can't easily practice suppressed (not without going out of state to use my cans) I now shoot matches unsuppressed.

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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by ktwm » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:36 pm

medphys wrote:
Still wondering if anybody shoots suppressed with 115's (even though it may not be particularly quiet). Or stated another way, when shooting 115's, do you typically remove your suppressor?

I have done this before....you still get the benefits, it's just louder. No need to remove the can. Rifle shooters usually shoot supersonic thru suppressors after all

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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by ktwm » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:39 pm

todd wrote: Bad example for 2 reasons...
#1 Amphibian never runs out of ammo... ever
....
doesn't magazines falling out of the gun during the match count? :P

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Garrett
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by Garrett » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:35 pm

I keep going back and forth on this one. I still lean toward shooting suppressed when possible though. I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

The Michigan state AG just released an opinion interpreting the silencer law in this state. He essentially stated that silencers are legal here! This is excellent news, and everyone here is pretty excited. This also came the day before a subgun match, and I had enough time to make a quick road trip out of state to pick up my stuff.

In the past, I've had gassing issues when shooting the Trident-9 on the M11/9, but the CAC-45 has always been fine in this regard. When I shot this match, I was getting gassed with the CAC on the the gun. It was to the point that I was having a difficult time sighting on some of the targets, and I realized after my run that I had tears running down my face from all the gas (okay - I do get choked up about going shooting sometimes too. :cry: ) They had a semi-auto course as well, and I was getting some gassing there as well, even with the slower rate of fire.

But the gun handles better with a can on. I may have to look at getting one of those ugly gas blocks behind the ejection port. Either that or start shooting with a gas mask.

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Garrett
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by Garrett » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:40 pm

todd wrote:Usually we use a timer with a higher microphone sensitivity and face it toward the ejection port so the last brass leaving the gun hits the mic on the way out. It works well as long as the shooter knows there will be a timer there on the last shot.
I haven't gotten an "airsoft" timer yet, but I did discover something. I had downloaded an app for my android phone called IPSC Shot Timer. I haven't played with it much, but it seems to work well, and I like that it gives you your shot-to-shot as well as split times on a table.

It seems to be pretty sensitive. Just talking in a normal voice will sometimes activate it. I'll have to play around a little more, but this might be the way to go for suppressed shooting.

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Garrett
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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by Garrett » Wed May 02, 2012 9:16 am

Just to add to the discussion, I recently shot a match using supersonic 115 gr. ammo with a silencer.  This was a last-minute change.  I bought a 100-round Beta mag for the Uzi recently, and the match had no mag restrictions, so it made sense to use the drum.  I have a quantity of 147 gr. ammo I have loaded using Berry's plated bullets.  While I don't have an issue with these in a standard stick mag, they will occasionally nose-dive into the front lip of the magazine tower, causing a malfunction. The softer plated bullet has a tendency to dig in rather than to ride over the lip of the mag. Switching back to a traditionally jacketed bullet seems to take care of this issue. 

I had less than a week before the match, and I didn't have any jacketed 147 gr. bullets on hand.  I did have a case of factory 115 FMJ though.  Testing showed they ran just fine in the Uzi drum.  I also verified the POI was not significantly different at 25 yds. than with the 147 gr. ammo.
At this point I could have opted to remove the silencer and shot that way.  However, I still like the softer recoil and decreased blast realized by shooting with a suppressor.  So I shot that way and it worked out very well for me. I think I'm still leaning toward using a suppressor whenever possible. 

As for the gassing issue on the M11/9, I'm starting to find it is more driven by the particular ammo / powder used.  At one point, I had reported gassing was only an issue with one can but not with another.  Later, the other can started gassing me as well.  This was likely about the time I switched powders in my "standard" subsonic load.  I've done a little experimenting, which seems to support the theory.  When I was loading with Vhit N320 or N330, I didn't get much gas. Or maybe the gas just wasn't noxious enough to present a problem.  I've switched to Win 231 (less expensive and more available), and the gas is much more noticeable. 

As noted previously, it is probably time to get a gas blocker for the gun.

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Re: To suppress or not to suppress. What do you say and why?

Post by todd » Thu May 03, 2012 9:16 pm

I'm curious how many subgun matches have been won by a suppressed gun versus not suppressed. I know Andy has won KCR a few times with his MKV sterling but I'm not sure who else out there has taken top honors in any class with a can on. Anyone have any input on this?

I know that Andy gave up on suppressed guns after there was an insane COF at KCR that had pretty much burnt the crap out of all people running suppressed. Andy was one of several who had their cans red hot and smoking. I think it was in 2009 maybe..

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