The Color RED

Discussion on Range Officer conduct, procedures and related issues.
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bob
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The Color RED

Post by bob » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:35 am

While we are pencilling out the rules, how about a general statement that all things no-shoot are red?

These be targets, red shirts, red lines, anything RED is a no shoot, discussion for or against?
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Post by todd » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:11 pm

The main problem with that is that some people are color blind and in all fairness a color needs to be used which they can see. I agree no shooting red shirts :D I'd be interested to talk to someone who is color blind and find out what colors stand out the most. I would expect white + black :D Does anyone here know someone who is color blind so it can be taken into consideration?

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L34A1
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Post by L34A1 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:44 am

There are different types of color blindness. One of the colors is red. So this would have to be addressed and the competitor would have to reveal such is condition before the match.
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Post by Paul Winters » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:45 am

My experiense is that the main type of color blindness is red/green (which is why green isn't used much..that, and the fact we shoot in a green world at the range). Also I have found that the issue of color blindness is that while both colors appear the same, intensity can be distinguished. Using a brighter color such as yellow or even a bright red helps the competitor. I can't think of a name but I have worked as an RO with about a dozen color blind people and haven't had a real problem. I ussually offer to paint a white mark on the no-shoot for a shooter to identifies themselves as color blind in conversation, whitout an offer taken yet. This usually can be resolved by color target choices in course design. Anybody had a different experience?

Paul : -)#

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todd
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Post by todd » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:43 am

I put a post over on Uzitalk asking if anyone can lend some experience to the matter. Stripes might also be another way to do them or for plates one side is painted one color for color blind people and the other side red for non color blind folks. Perhaps a big white stripe down the center of a popper or something over the red.

Perhaps it is not that big of an issue after all if nobody has ever taken you up on the offer Paul.

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bob
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I've got to work on making my point better

Post by bob » Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:41 pm

Guess I missed the mark by several miles on that, was not my intention to direct this the way is going.

I was under the impression that the red X on a no shoot was to help delineate for those who have color distinguishment issues what the no-shoot was. I had no idea there were so many color blind individuals out there.

Not the first time I've shot my foot and won't be the last!
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Post by todd » Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:47 pm

I apologize for taking the thread on a tangent Bob! I don't know how many color blind folks are out there but I am sure at least a few own machine guns

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Post by Icer » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:23 pm

Allright..........guess it's time for me to step out of the closet so to speak and admit that I was diagnosed in grade school as suffering with the horror that is color-blindness. Yep, it was me holding up the line and cutting into valuable recess time when I couldn't "see" those damn numbers amongst the dots. The shame, the teasing, the realization that I was somehow different. Years of therapy and counseling have simply blunted the pain, but it is still there..........lurking. Anyway, enough about me.

A brief explanation from a page I found http://www.geocities.com/heartland/8833/coloreye.html

Color blindness is an inaccurate term for a lack of perceptual sensitivity to certain colors. Absolute color blindness is almost unknown. There are three types of color receptors in our eyes, red, green and blue. We also have black and white receptors. They are more sensitive than the color receptors, that is why we have poor color perception in the dark.
Color blindness comes as a result of a lack of one or more of the types of color receptors. Most color perception defects are for red or green or both. About 10% of males have a color perception defect, but this is rare in females. Red-green color blindness is a result of a lack of red receptors.
Another form of color blindness -- yellow-blue is the second most common form, but it's extremely rare. It is also possible to have the color receptors missing entirely, which would result in black and white vision.


I was diagnosed with red-green color blindness. It was why I failed so badly at identifying those damn numbers in the Ishihara tests. I blame irresponsible breeding on my parents part.

Luckily almost all people diagnosed with color blindness have absolutely no trouble determining whether a target is red, blue, black, or white. Mostly we have trouble with subtle shades not distinct colors. I have never felt as though I was at a handicap with all the many target arrays I have encountered.

Unless we start using Ishihara tests to determine target engagement order I believe this is simply not an issue we need to worry about.

---Icer

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Post by todd » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Well that about puts it to bed then. The fact that we have been talking about you in red letters for days now and you never noticed it explains a lot. I take back everything I sad about your personal hygiene :twisted:

StealthyBlagga
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Post by StealthyBlagga » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:35 pm

There is a lot of diversity in other matches.

IPSC: White = no shoot, brown = shoot
IDPA: White or "surrender hands" painted on target = no shoot, brown or "weapon" painted on target = shoot
Steel matches: who knows !

In the days before the current two-sided IPSC target (white one side for "no shoot", brown the other for "shoot"), we used to spray paint a big black X across the no shoot targets. This can work for all types of targets - paper, steel, big, small, and the color contrast (dark on light) may be more independent of color blindness or ambient light problems. Worth considering.

My personal opinion is: I don't care, so long as it is made clear at the start of the match, and remains the same for all stages. I have shot in matches where the organizers, for whatever reason, had brown shoots/white no shoots on one stange, then reversed the logic on the next stage... totally pointless, except to trap, humiliate and demoralize the less experienced competitors. I'd just prefer that we don't allow this sort of BS please.

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Re: The Color RED

Post by Hot Lead Zapper » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:19 pm

I'd had a shooter that is color blind and he used it to get all the matches set-up in his favor. So what I'd done to get around it, was to go to different shapes on metal targets: round, squares, triangles, diamond, cats,and dogs. Paper IPSC Targets turn the hostage target up side down, or put some type of logo: stars,X,american flag, or the words no-shoot. For a while all was well, and then this shooter would cry about something small again. So I told him to set-up the next match for the color blind and I would be glad to run people through. I wasn't trying to be a jerk about it, but to learn from it. Unfortunately he wouldn't take me up on it. The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few or the one. I'm sorry for people's disabilities, I really am, but I'm not a socialist nor do I cater to socialist.
I wouldn't want a color blind person to mistake my RO shirt for a hostile paper target in a 180 combat pit stage! As mean as I may sound, safety first comes before the National Disabilities Act in this case. Sorry!

I did find out later, that I had another color blind competitive shooter that came to my defense. He was a retired USAF recon pilot and he said it wouldn't be right to make everyone color blind!

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